XOF

your comments disturb me on a few levels

who choose your pastor or pastors for you that you have so little respect for them?

I would suggest that if you have false shepherds you dumpm them now and not just ignore them.

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Thanks for sharing. I am happy to try to address whatever concerns you have. I was not too clear on the specifics of what you wrote, and it seemed to me as though there were a few leaps of assumptions in there...on your part.

I will try to define my terms first of all, and then a few other points as well, and then maybe you can show me where I am still not clear, and we can go from there.


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I would like to know why I should have respect for Pastors to begin with. Now I am sure that this must sound like a shocking statement to some.

Obviously the world already disrespects Pastors, and our culture reflects that on an everyday basis.

I have every repect for pastors who are Biblical, who are strong or committed Christian Believers, and who actively teach their congregations how to be active believers,knowledgeable in the Bible, and strong in their personal walk with Jesus Christ.

So, I do not presume to speak for anyone else, but those are the Pastors that I have respect for.

On the other hand the Pastors I do not have much respect for are those that
1. do not know their Bible well
2. are not available to their congregations
3. do not actively teach their congregations or audiences how to do in-depth Bible studies.
4. sign up or agree to belong to a denomination without knowing what it believes
5. do not have a witnessing or a visitation program in their church
6. do not actively attempt to teach the youth of the church on some kind of personal level on some kind of regular basis.
7. do not actively vocally verbally encourage Bible memorization

etc. I could go on, but that will be enough.

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The Challenge is that many pastors are so out of touch 1. with culture and 2. with their church members that many Pastors pray that they will not receive input into their ministries that would demonstrate the ignorance of Pastors.

My basis for my own conclusions is based on having talked with dozens of pastors over the years and their staff.

I went to a church not to long ago. THe church was large (about 3000). But the pastor was not approachable by any member of the congregation.

Any person attempting to go up and shake the hand of the pastor was met with bodygards running interference. That does not seem Biblical to me. Pastors who distrust their congregations and look to bodygards rather than the sovereignty of GOd...is an example of something I do not find to be a Biblical way of directing/organizing a church.

There are dozens of examples I could cite. But I want to get back to the question of Why I would disagree with the general notion of trusting Pastors.

Probably the most fundamental reason is that I have seen too many pastors give up the idea of truly influencing culture and only confining themselves to the 4 walls of their church. They attend no Civic Functions, do not care about local government, do not reach out personally with visitation. They make no recomendation on politics because they have given in to fear. They are committed to safety and security rather than the true proclamation of the Gospel.

This very website is a constant tribute to that fact. Would there be a need for websites such as this one, if Pastors (yes dare we say it - the head leader of a church) would be offering classes on church history or on Roman Catholicism.
When is the last time you personally saw this happen ?

Boards like this meet a need that CHURCHES ARE NOT MEETING. The churches are not meeting these needs because they are derelict in their duties. So either others have a very wattered down version of what the church should be, or it is reasonable and Biblical to actually expect a church to equip its members to give reasons for the hope that lies within them.

Most Churches are weak, and are led by Weak men. It is a breakdown in moral leadership and a breakdown in the leadership of Men.

The average Man who is the head of the household spends an average of 4 Minutes in direct conversation with his children on a daily basis. Are you not able to identify this as a failure on the part of those who are the spiritual leaders...to teach those men about the necessity of interacting with their children instead of coming home and watching the Football game for 2 or 3 hours ?

The Pastors in the 1600s would have been shocked and horrified to find a) the contact between parent and child so small and b) to find that the spiritual education of children was being ignored in such a flagrant manner.
What would the Pastor of today say about this...who would he pass the buck to ? OR will he take responsibility for doing his part in teaching men How to be men...and real leaders ?


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I will cite some statistics about Christian Teenagers, and you and others can ask themselves: IF Pastors were doing their job of educating their churchgoing audiences, would these statistics be happening ?

I will illustrate this with a few statistics that you can check out and verify for yourself from the source listed below:

63 % of Teenage Christians from Christian homes believe that Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Jews and ALL OTHER PEOPLE PRAY to the SAME GOD, even though they use a different name for their God.

46 % of Teenage Christians from Christian homes believe that Jesus Christ committed Sins.

- Do you see that this belief has a possibility to impact a teenagers' understanding of whether they can believe that Jesus CHrist died for theirs sins ???

51 % of Teenage Christians from Christian homes say that Jesus Christ died but DID NOT RISE from the dead !

[Source: Beyond Belief to Conviction by Josh McDowell]

These are teenagers in Evangelical Household. When is the last time that a Senior Pastor sat down to answer the questions of Teenagers in the church and demonstrate true concern for them, rather than relegating them to someone else ? Does leadership from the top matter ?

Is this the fault of YOuth PAstors, or ultimately of the Senior Pastor ? Where does that buck stop ?

This means that out of a group of 100 teenagers who idenfify themselves as being Christian Teenagers from an Evangelical Background, 51 of those will not be saved - if for no other reason than they do NOT BELIEVE that Jesus Christ rose from the Dead.

That is happening in almost everychurch, USA. Josh McDowell was far more emphatic live on TV. (Get a copy of his recent appearance on Jerry Falwell TV Show). McDowell says that within 3 years, if these trends are not reversed, there will not be the next generation of church goers to continue the church.

Now maybe this should not shock me. Maybe I should just go back to sleep. Maybe I should not care...maybe I should just tell myself that everything is alright and we can all sleep just fine as these kids sit in Christian Churches and are on their way to being eternally lost.

It certainly is somebody's fault. And even if their parents may be responsible (for which the pastor will also bear great responsibility for having failed to teach them) - The fault in these spiritual matters will be with the PAstor and the staff that he has chosen.

I remember that Sweden used to be a Protestant Evangelical Country. I know that Holland was a great Christian nation at one time. I know that England had a great influence on their world & culture through Protestants. But public statements are now routinely made in ENgland about the death of Christianity in that country and the rise of witchcraft. So What do we do ? What will others have us believe, that we should now start treating Evangelical Pastors with the same kind of undue reverence that Catholics have for their saints ???


Maybe my problem with evangelical Pastors...is that I know too many of them.

Show me the pastors with the broken heart...show me the pastors who pray for 3 hours a day...or lead Bible studies personally...or who personally work with the homeless...or who are crying because of their own lack of strength in dealing with these issues...What should we do ?

Where are the Pastors who are supposed to be speaking out to protect Israel ? Where are the pastors who are supposed to be speaking out on behalf of slavery of CHRistians in the Sudan ? Do we keep smiling and say nothing ?

Oh, I know... I know...that you can always find the Token Pastor who really does care...and then the Other TEN THOUSAND NON-COMMITTED PASTORS will always point to their token pastors who are actually doing something...as a sign that SOMEBODY CARES - about the persecuted.

TELL ME I AM WRONG>>>and share with me objective reality based information, and not a tepic plea for why we should tolerate the weakness of Pastors when those are the ones who should be spiritually the strongest.

- more to come momentarily