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Budge, you certainly cannot say that in seriousness. Do you think that the Early Christians made this stuff up? They had the words of Jesus ringing in their ears when they were teaching their disciples. WHERE do you imagine they got these things from?


I believe things got twisted with time. The Early Christian church was Christian until Constantine took over, and the Papacy came into play. Check out the thread--History proves Papacy to be a Fraud. I explore much of this history. I dont know if Vlad would answer. Yesterday I was overwhelmed with paragraphs and more but I answered the basic points. I do not believe the Catholic church held to Christ's teachings and they were distorted with time especially as Middle Ages came in with abuses of power. The Inquistions, Papal corruption and more just prove this point.

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And what of those Protestant pastors and teachers who studied the Bible and never dreampt that they would find the Scriptures leading them right into the Catholic Faith? What of Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Steve Ray, David Curie, Dave Armstrong, and a host of others, an ever growing host who read the Scriptures and find principles in Scripture that they only can find in Catholicism? What of my friend Jim who as an atheist picked up his KJV and after studying it, found Christ in the Catholic Church and is just as joyful as you are?


I had Dave Armstrongs website bookmarked as I was catholic, I found myself disagreeing with most of it. He looked more to Catholic "history" then the Bible. As for Scott Hahn, his book The Lamb's Supper--I read it the month before I left, made no sense and denied the power and prophecy of Gods Word. The idea of heaven being the same as the repetitive Catholic Mass sounded horrifying. It also gave a good story as for the denial of Bible Prophecy. Steve Ray Ive been on his board Catholic convert have had debates with his friends. I dont agree with them either. Most converts have spoken of history sucking them in. I would say catholic version of the facts rather then the truth. They also did not in most cases Look to Gods Word first and joined in with the denial of Gods Word. I have seen it on Armstrongs site and in writings of Hahn as well as others like Kreeft and Mark Shea--who follows the logic constantly that the clergy can do no wrong and its the laity and culture's fault. The fact he thinks that low of his fellow church members without calling the criminals to accountability was also sad to read. I used to go to his blog.

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I'm sorry that the Church is in such a low state of affairs at this time, but just because the palace is run down does not mean that the authority of the king is any less real. One day the Church will be restored to all Her glory.


Revelations 17. You believe the Catholic church IS THE CHRISTIAN church, this is the main difference between us. I do not. I do not believe they are anything but a power hungry- false denomination with huge abuses of power in human history and the cause of martyship of many true Christians. They are a political organization with a religious veneer that seeks power and claims authority based on itself. There are some true Christians under its roof but many remain unaware or some how found the truth--Gods light shining through. Most of the doctrines work against this however.

I see no evidence for the RCC being the ONE TRUE CHURCH. Absolutely none. Even on this board I have asked myself how the Catholic can trust their church to be the OTC given the bad fruits, lies and deceptions of its leaders. Sacramentalism is something that also is false.

I did choose Gods Word over Magisterium. For everyone on this board it will come to that choice. Gods Word--in the Bible or Catholic Magisterium--belief the RCC is the OTC.

At least unlike most Catholics on this board you do admit to some faults and dont try and play the RCC is perfect game. I appreciate that. :) You seem to understand why some people may leave not being able to abide by the liberalism, UN kissy-face and lukewarmness. However most Catholics do not see a problem outside of individuals like yourself or Trads. I also believe the Novus Ordo is a totally different religion even then Traditional Catholicism. I can explain this more if you need me to. I go on Trad boards remember, they know I dont agree with their doctrine either but I believe after Vatican II, definite neo-paganism was joined to Catholicism which has always been open to these influences but there they opened the door wide to them.

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If it happens soon, we will welcome you back Home. Meanwhile, we are busy working and praying to restore orthodoxy to this situation.


You may be better off being in aByzantine church, I think things are more traditional there at least. Your church branch I hope most likely does not teach Allah equals God and other interfaith nonsense. I am already Home. I finally found the right church to be in, but even more important then that I got saved in Jesus Christ:)