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JoanneKJB1611 |
Catholic Religion Prohibited Bible Reading |
Lead | |
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by Tracy at www.Jesus-is-Lord.com The following is excerpted from an article by David Cloud entitled, "The KJV and the Latin Vulgate". I know
middle-aged former Catholics who can remember in the 60s when they were never encouraged to read the word. Many Catholics today still don't know much about
the word, but the popish are attempting to incorrectly use a few passages to support their house of toothpicks called Romanism. The Council of Trent
(1545-1564) placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books, and forbade any person to read the Bible without a license from a Roman Catholic bishop or
inquisitor. The Council added these words: "That if any one shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book, without such a license, he shall not
receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary." Rome's attempt to keep the Bible from men has continued to recent times. Pope Pius VII
(1800-1823) denounced the Bible Society and expressed shock at the circulation of the Scriptures. Pius VII said, "It is evidence from experience, that the
holy Scriptures, when circulated in the vulgar tongue, have, through the temerity of men, produced more harm than benefit." Pope Leo XII called the
Protestant Bible the "Gospel of the Devil" in an encyclical letter of 1824. Pope Gregory XVI (1831-1846) railed "against the publication,
distribution, reading, and possession of books of the holy Scriptures translated into the vulgar tongue." Pope Leo XII, in January 1850, condemned the
Bible Societies and admitted the fact that the distribution of Scripture has "long been condemned by the holy chair." Dear Catholic friend, why do
you think Rome prohibited Catholics, and others, from reading the Bible? Why do you think they killed over 50 million people and called them heretics for
reading and believing the Holy Scriptures? Why did Pope Pius VII say that the Bible causes men more harm than benefit? Why would God's word cause harm? You
see, the Devil knows that if you read the Bible with the intention of learning the truth, you will FLY from the Catholic religion. Over hundreds of years, the
Catholic religion, headed by the pope, did unimaginable cruelties to Bible-believers. They were burned, tortured, imprisoned, banished, etc. by the pope
because they would only believe the Bible. Lord willing, I'm going to do a review of J. A. Wylie's excellent book, The Rise of the Papacy. God's
message to Catholics... "Come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you."
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thomas1957 |
Did the Catholic Church Add to the Old Testament? | ||
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OBJECTOR: The Roman Catholic Church added seven books to the Old Testament at the Council of Trent in the sixteenth century.
We Protestants accept thirty-nine books of the Old Testament, all written in Hebrew with a few parts in Aramaic, while you Catholics accept seven additional
books, making forty-six. It seems that these seven were added by the Catholic Church later. The Bible speaks against adding to or subtracting from the word of
God. In Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32 and Revelation 22:18-19 the word of God warns strenuously against changing God's word. The Catholic Church has violated this
command.
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thomas1957 |
The Old Testament Canon | ||
The Old Testament CanonDuring the Reformation, primarily for doctrinal reasons, Protestants removed seven books from the Old Testament: 1 and 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, and Judith, and parts of two others, Daniel and Esther. They did so even though these books had been regarded as canonical since the beginning of Church history.As Protestant church historian J. N. D. Kelly writes, "It should be observed that the Old Testament thus admitted as authoritative in the Church was somewhat bulkier and more comprehensive [than the Protestant Bible]. . . . It always included, though with varying degrees of recognition, the so-called apocrypha or deuterocanonical books" (Early Christian Doctrines, 53), which are rejected by Protestants. Below we give patristic quotations from each of the deuterocanonical books. Notice how the Fathers quoted these books along with the protocanonicals. The deuterocanonicals are those books of the Old Testament that were included in the Bible even though there had been some discussion about whether they should be. Also included are the earliest official lists of the canon. For the sake of brevity these are not given in full. When the lists of the canon cited here are given in full, they include all the books and only the books found in the modern Catholic Bible. When examining the question of what books were originally included in the Old Testament canon, it is important to note that some of the books of the Bible have been known by more than one name. Sirach is also known as Ecclesiasticus, 1 and 2 Chronicles as 1 and 2 Paralipomenon, Ezra and Nehemiah as 1 and 2 Esdras, and 1 and 2 Samuel with 1 and 2 Kings as 1, 2, 3, and 4 Kings-that is, 1 and 2 Samuel are named 1 and 2 Kings, and 1 and 2 Kings are named 3 and 4 Kings. The history and use of these designations is explained more fully in Scripture reference works. The Didache "You shall not waver with regard to your decisions [Sir. 1:28]. Do not be someone who stretches out his hands to receive but withdraws them when it comes to giving [Sir. 4:31]" (Didache 4:5 [A.D. 70]). The Letter of Barnabas "Since, therefore, [Christ] was about to be manifested and to suffer in the flesh, his suffering was foreshown. For the prophet speaks against evil, 'Woe to their soul, because they have counseled an evil counsel against themselves' [Is. 3:9], saying, 'Let us bind the righteous man because he is displeasing to us' [Wis. 2:12.]" (Letter of Barnabas 6:7 [A.D. 74]). Clement of Rome "By the word of his might [God] established all things, and by his word he can overthrow them. 'Who shall say to him, "What have you done?" or who shall resist the power of his strength?' [Wis. 12:12]" (Letter to the Corinthians 27:5 [ca. A.D. 80]). Polycarp of Smyrna "Stand fast, therefore, in these things, and follow the example of the Lord, being firm and unchangeable in the faith, loving the brotherhood [1 Pet. 2:17]. . . . When you can do good, defer it not, because 'alms delivers from death' [Tob. 4:10, 12:9]. Be all of you subject to one another [1 Pet. 5:5], having your conduct blameless among the Gentiles [1 Pet. 2:12], and the Lord may not be blasphemed through you. But woe to him by whom the name of the Lord is blasphemed [Is. 52:5]!" (Letter to the Philadelphians 10 [A.D. 135]). Irenaeus "Those . . . who are believed to be presbyters by many, but serve their own lusts and do not place the fear of God supreme in their hearts, but conduct themselves with contempt toward others and are puffed up with the pride of holding the chief seat [Matt. 23:6] and work evil deeds in secret, saying 'No man sees us,' shall be convicted by the Word, who does not judge after outward appearance, nor looks upon the countenance, but the heart; and they shall hear those words to be found in Daniel the prophet: 'O you seed of Canaan and not of Judah, beauty has deceived you and lust perverted your heart' [Dan. 13:56]. You that have grown old in wicked days, now your sins which you have committed before have come to light, for you have pronounced false judgments and have been accustomed to condemn the innocent and to let the guilty go free, although the Lord says, 'You shall not slay the innocent and the righteous' [Dan. 13:52, citing Ex. 23:7]" (Against Heresies 4:26:3 [A.D. 189]; Daniel 13 is not in the Protestant Bible). "Jeremiah the prophet has pointed out that as many believers as God has prepared for this purpose, to multiply those left on the earth, should both be under the rule of the saints and to minister to this [new] Jerusalem and that [his] kingdom shall be in it, saying, 'Look around Jerusalem toward the east and behold the joy which comes to you from God himself. Behold, your sons whom you have sent forth shall come: They shall come in a band from the east to the west. . . . God shall go before with you in the light of his splendor, with the mercy and righteousness which proceed from him' [Bar. 4:36-5:9]" (ibid., 5:35:1; Baruch was often considered part of Jeremiah, as it is here). Hippolytus "What is narrated here [in the story of Susannah] happened at a later time, although it is placed at the front of the book [of Daniel], for it was a custom with the writers to narrate many things in an inverted order in their writings. . . . [W]e ought to give heed, beloved, fearing lest anyone be overtaken in any transgression and risk the loss of his soul, knowing as we do that God is the judge of all and the Word himself is the eye which nothing that is done in the world escapes. Therefore, always watchful in heart and pure in life, let us imitate Susannah" (Commentary on Daniel [A.D. 204]; the story of Susannah [Dan. 13] is not in the Protestant Bible). Cyprian of Carthage "In Genesis [it says], 'And God tested Abraham and said to him, "Take your only son whom you love, Isaac, and go to the high land and offer him there as a burnt offering . . ."' [Gen. 22:1-2]. . . . Of this same thing in the Wisdom of Solomon [it says], 'Although in the sight of men they suffered torments, their hope is full of immortality . . .' [Wis. 3:4]. Of this same thing in the Maccabees [it says], 'Was not Abraham found faithful when tested, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness' [1 Macc. 2:52; see Jas. 2:21-23]" (Treatises 7:3:15 [A.D. 248]). "So Daniel, too, when he was required to worship the idol Bel, which the people and the king then worshipped, in asserting the honor of his God, broke forth with full faith and freedom, saying, 'I worship nothing but the Lord my God, who created the heaven and the earth' [Dan. 14:5]" (Letters 55:5 [A.D. 253]; Daniel 14 is not in the Protestant Bible). Council of Rome "Now indeed we must treat of the divine scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [that is, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings]; Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book, Ecclesiastes, one book, [and] Canticle of Canticles [Song of Songs], one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus [Sirach], one book . . . . Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books" (Decree of Pope Damasus [A.D. 382]). Council of Hippo "[It has been decided] that besides the canonical scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture. But the canonical scriptures are as follows: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua the Son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, the Kings, four books, the Chronicles, two books, Job, the Psalter, the five books of Solomon [Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, and a portion of the Psalms], the twelve books of the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Ezra, two books, Maccabees, two books . . ." (Canon 36 [A.D. 393]). Council of Carthage III "[It has been decided] that nothing except the canonical scriptures should be read in the Church under the name of the divine scriptures. But the canonical scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon, two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon, twelve books of the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees . . ." (Canon 47 [A.D. 397]). Augustine "The whole canon of the scriptures, however, in which we say that consideration is to be applied, is contained in these books: the five of Moses . . . and one book of Joshua [Son of] Nave, one of Judges; one little book which is called Ruth . . . then the four of Kingdoms, and the two of Paralipomenon . . . . [T]here are also others too, of a different order . . . such as Job and Tobit and Esther and Judith and the two books of Maccabees, and the two of Esdras . . . . Then there are the prophets, in which there is one book of the Psalms of David, and three of Solomon. . . . But as to those two books, one of which is entitled Wisdom and the other of which is entitled Ecclesiasticus and which are called 'of Solomon' because of a certain similarity to his books, it is held most certainly that they were written by Jesus Sirach. They must, however, be accounted among the prophetic books, because of the authority which is deservedly accredited to them" (Christian Instruction 2:8:13 [A.D. 397]). "We read in the books of the Maccabees [2 Macc. 12:43] that sacrifice was offered for the dead. But even if it were found nowhere in the Old Testament writings, the authority of the Catholic Church which is clear on this point is of no small weight, where in the prayers of the priest poured forth to the Lord God at his altar the commendation of the dead has its place" (The Care to be Had for the Dead 1:3 [A.D. 421]). The Apostolic Constitutions "Now women also prophesied. Of old, Miriam the sister of Moses and Aaron [Ex. 15:20], and after her, Deborah [Judges. 4:4], and after these Huldah [2 Kgs. 22:14] and Judith [Judith 8], the former under Josiah and the latter under Darius" (Apostolic Constitutions 8:2 [A.D. 400]). Jerome "What sin have I committed if I follow the judgment of the churches? But he who brings charges against me for relating [in my preface to the book of Daniel] the objections that the Hebrews are wont to raise against the story of Susannah [Dan. 13], the Song of the Three Children [Dan. 3:29-68, RSV-CE], and the story of Bel and the Dragon [Dan. 14], which are not found in the Hebrew volume, proves that he is just a foolish sycophant. I was not relating my own personal views, but rather the remarks that they are wont to make against us. If I did not reply to their views in my preface, in the interest of brevity, lest it seem that I was composing not a preface, but a book, I believe I added promptly the remark, for I said, 'This is not the time to discuss such matters'" (Against Rufinius 11:33 [A.D. 401]). Pope Innocent I "A brief addition shows what books really are received in the canon. These are the things of which you desired to be informed verbally: of Moses, five books, that is, of Genesis, of Exodus, of Leviticus, of Numbers, of Deuteronomy, and Joshua, of Judges, one book, of Kings, four books, and also Ruth, of the prophets, sixteen books, of Solomon, five books, the Psalms. Likewise of the histories, Job, one book, of Tobit, one book, Esther, one, Judith, one, of the Maccabees, two, of Esdras, two, Paralipomenon, two books . . ." (Letters 7 [A.D. 408]). http://www.catholic.com/library/Old_Testament_Canon.asp |
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thomas1957 |
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The Catholic Church, as the guardian of Holy Scripture, opposed only unauthorized translations, which is no different from many Protestants today who protest against various translations as "liberal" or inaccurate, due to a perceived bias based on the religious beliefs of the translator(s). This flows from a praiseworthy concern for the accurate transmission of God's word. Likewise, the Catholic Church is entitled to have an opinion on the matter without being unjustly accused of being "anti-Bible." The early Protestants, including Martin Luther himself, often censored or prohibited Catholic translations in their districts, on the same basis (while they also were prohibiting the Mass). It is a double standard, then, to accuse the Catholic Church of something that Protestants have always selectively done, too. The Church, it's true, prohibited vernacular Bible reading in some circumstances because false doctrine was already rampant, such as in 1229, when the bizarre Gnostic cult of Catharism was influential. Protestants claim that the Bible is clear enough to stop such cults, yet since they have never achieved doctrinal unity in their own ranks based on the Bible Alone, this premise is highly questionable. Moreover, this objection neglects to see that all Bible interpretation occurs within a context of an overall belief-system and tradition. If Baptists read the Bible together, they will arrive at Baptist doctrine, because groups have a way of preserving their own particular beliefs and biases.http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/05/catholic-church-has-always-been-enemy.html |
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Alexandra1611 |
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Why was William Tyndale burned at the stake by Catholics?
Why did Catholics try to kill King James in 1605? |
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camabeach |
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Why don't you accept "The Message" as your Bible?
Tyndale put out an unauthorized and faulty version of the Bible and would not stop when told to. The Bible is so important that the Catholic Church is very picky about who translates it, and the quality of the translation so that people are not misled by bad translations. Where is your proof that Catholics tried to kill King James? Or is that yet another baseless accusation? If the Catholic Church hated the Bible, then why did she dedicate thousands of monks over hundreds of years to painstakingly copy Bibles? And why would she have 3-4 readings at every Mass? And why do you accept as canonical the books of the New Testament that the Church declared as canonical in 393? If she didn't have God-given authority, maybe you could come up with your own version of the New Testament. |
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Alexandra1611 |
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In short, Tyndale didn't put out the corrupted version of the Bible. So, cama, you approve of people killing others for printing things they don't
like? By that logic, I'd be justified in burning all the publishing companies to the ground for printing other than King James.
The RCC has NEVER liked the King James version nor the text it's based upon. That sums it all up. |
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camabeach |
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Alexandra, can you answer ANY of my questions?
Do I approve of people killing others for printing thing they don't like? Uh, no. However we are not talking about just anything. We are talking about God's Holy Word. The RCC has NEVER liked the King James version nor the text it's based upon. That sums it all up. Basically becuase the KJV is a Protestant English Bible and they already had their own Bible in English called Douay-Rheims. The DRB predated the KJV by about 15 or so years. So English speaking people already had an authorized version of the Bible even before King James decided to produce one. |
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Alexandra1611 |
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The DR "Bible" is a corrupted version.
The first page of my Bible (KJV of course) says the following: Translated out of the original tongues AND WITH THE FORMER TRANSLATIONS diligently compared and revised by His Majesty's special command. |
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camabeach |
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Was King James infallible? And it is a fact that the translators of the KJV did compare their English version with Duay-Rheims. That is one of the reasons why
the translations are so similar.
What makes a "corrupted Bible" in you opinion? And if a Bible is corrupted, should it be suppressed by the church? |
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Alexandra1611 |
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If a Bible is corrupted it should be tossed in the garbage heap.
And of course they may be *similar* because a counterfeit, by definition, isn't going to be obvious to the nondiscerning. Didn't the RCC give us the Bible? |
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glorybe429 |
"the catholic church | ||
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TommyBoy
<as GUARDIAN>
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thomas1957 |
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Martin Luther himself admits,
"We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists (Catholics) that they possess the Word of God which we received from them, otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it" Commentary on St John Chapter 16 Martin Luther admits that Christians owe their Bible to the efforts of the Catholic Church. |
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Heb412 |
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t-birdbrain1957,
When the blind lead the blind, both fall into the ditch. t-birdbrain...was "the" church of Rome around in approximately 600 B.C.? Jer. 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Must have been, eh, else how could Jeremiah have found God's words if Rome hadn't been there to give them to him? Papists are the perfect prey for con men as they'll believe anything EXCEPT the written word of God. Heb412 |
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thomas1957 |
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When the blind lead the blind, both fall into the ditch.Yes, and you and yours are perfect example, thanks for proving my point.
t-birdbrain...was "the" church of Rome around in approximately 600 B.C.?Who said that Church was around in 600BC? Newsflash! The Church was established by Christ in 33AD and founded upon St Peter which IS in existence to this very day, almost 2000 years later not a testimony to man, but to the Holy Spirit itself. But since you like to refer to Old Testament Scriptures, why do you approve of the Protestant Old Testament (39 books), (which is based upon the Palestinian canon, which was established by Jewish rabbis at Jamnia around the year 100 AD), instead of the Alexandrain canon (Septuagint), (46 books), which was being used by the early church? After all you use a Old Testament canon that was approved AFTER Christ' death and Resurrection and was also used by those who rejected Christ and Christianity.
Last Edited By: thomas1957
04/23/08 22:22:31.
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Loose Nut |
Tom's point | ||
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Tom
Your point is your pointed head! You are so blinded by Rome that you don't even know which from what, where from when. Pull your head our of your anal orifice and clean your eye's! Loose Nut |
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camabeach |
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When you think about it, the Protestants use the Old Testament canon approved by the actual men who crucified Christ. They not only denyed him, they killed
Him. Protestants accuse Catholics of adding to scripture when in fact it is Protestants who literally took 6 whole books out of Scripture. Which group reveres
Scripture more?
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Alexandra1611 |
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If you're talking about the Apocrypha, IT DON'T BELONG THERE!
And there you go with the "blame the Jews" schtick. As if the Romans had no part in it? Furthermore, the earliest Christians were JEWS. Salvation is of the JEWS, not Rome! |
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thomas1957 |
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If you're talking about the Apocrypha, IT DON'T BELONG THERE!It was there from the beginning, so why did you remove it? Because it didn't fit YOUR theology? Why don't you start telling the truth. BTW Alexandra why would you want to use a canon that was established AFTER the death and Resurrection of our Lord? You use the same canon that was used by those who rejected Christ and persecuted Christians, but of course we can clearly see that you and the 1611 cult reject all that Christ teaches and says so you are really no different. |
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Heb412 |
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t-birdbrain,
But since you like to refer to Old Testament Scriptures, why do you approve of the Protestant Old Testament... There's a good li'l Romanut! When you have no answer, change the subject! We were talking about your foolish and blasphemous belief that the church of Rome gave man GOD'S word and so I asked you "how could Jeremiah have found God's words if Rome hadn't been there to give them to him" whereupon you left that discussion and have since been going on and on about the apocrypha. Oh, well...when you're losing, PUNT! On second thought, I'd bet that you'd prefer a hail mary pass to punting, eh? Heb412 |
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thomas1957 |
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There's a good li'l Romanut! When you have no answer, change the subject!I never claimed that the Church wrote or gave the Hebrew Scriptures, I said that the Church affirmed or canonized the Alexandrian translations (or also know as the Septuagint) and not the Palestinian canon which was used and canonized by Jewish rabbis at Jamnia in the year 100AD. Why don't you answer the question that I asked earlier? Why do use an OT that was used canonized years after Christ death and Resurrection and was used by those who rejected Christ and persecuted Christianity? |
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