Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?

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Sid2	Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 4773 (01/08/08 10:06:57) Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None *Quote:* If baptism unto salvation is to be interpreted as water baptism, then salvation is of man and man alone, the Lord has no role in the process. Additionally, this suggests that He has nothing to do with our salvation until we perform the works required of us. If the baptism referenced is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, then both elements are accounted for -- man's responsibility in accepting the Lord's invitation and the Lord's role in regeneration as the author and finisher of our faith. Given the fact that there is one baptism, and that baptism is a necessary element of salvation, then the water by baptism for salvation theory says that salvation is a combination of belief and baptism, both works of man, rendering God as no effect in salvation -- which we know is a violation of Ephesians 2:8-9. Seeing as how there are two baptisms referenced, one of the Lord and the other of man, the fact that our works do not save, the fact that there is but one baptism unto salvation, one can only conclude that the baptism unto salvation spoken of in scripture is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that indwells each believer upon spiritual rebirth. And of course, there is always the easy answer: If water baptism was necessary for salvation, then Jesus lied to the thief on the cross. More . . . The Catholic tradition of baptizing infants adds another layer of confusion. . . .
DougErd	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#1	[-]
Posts: 1596 (01/08/08 16:14:08) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* If water baptism was necessary for salvation, then Jesus lied to the thief on the cross. Also, claiming "baptism by desire" is just Catholic double talk trying to explain away the obvious contradiction of their doctrine to Scripture.
thomas1957	Born of Water and Spirit	#2	[-]
Posts: 542 (01/08/08 19:51:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Isn't interesting to note that before Jesus' discourse on baptism with Nicodemus in John 3:5 it states: "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man." John 2:23-25
thomas1957	Re: Born of Water and Spirit	#3	[-]
Posts: 542 (01/08/08 20:01:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sounds like more than faith is required, for Jesus said in order to be "born again" or in order to enter into the kingdom of heaven one be born of "water and spirit" "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot* enter into the kingdom of God."* John 3:5 Baptism unites us with Christ and gives supernatural life to our souls which was lost by the stain of "original sin". God bless
thomas1957	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#4	[-]
Posts: 542 (01/08/08 20:11:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* If water baptism was necessary for salvation, then Jesus lied to the thief on the cross. The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament. For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation. CCC 1258-1259
Loose Nut	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#5	[-]
Posts: 4618 (01/09/08 04:11:10) Anything goes Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	thomas1957 The only baptism that counts is of the Holy spirit! You Romanist invent other things, but that is the only one that counts, so get off your dead horse! Loose Nut
Sid2	Is Water Baptism the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit	#6	[-]
Posts: 4773 (01/09/08 04:52:47) Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* The only baptism that counts is of the Holy spirit! LN: The episode about Apollos should help Catholics understand that they are limited to the baptism of John: Acts 18:23-28; Acts 19:1-7 (King James Version) The RCC teaching that water baptism [especially of infants] is the equivalent of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is just lame. Their tradition of teaching that water baptism [especially of infants] is a sacrament of regeneration is the primary cause of so many unsaved baptised Catholics.
glorybe429	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#7	[-]
Posts: 16619 (01/09/08 17:12:29) official flamethrower Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	thommy Your "church" is NOT GOD'S WORD and is false. "beware of wolves in sheeps clothing"
DougErd	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#8	[-]
Posts: 1596 (01/09/08 19:50:35) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament. For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation. CCC 1258-1259 Let's count how many errors their is in just these two Catechisms of the Catholic Church: 1. "The Church" is incorrect. The church as written in Scriptures is not the Catholic Church as this Catechism pretends it to be. 2. Their is no such thing as a "baptism of desire". 3. Pretending that baptism is necessary for salvation, when it isn't. 4. Pretending that the church has always believed that baptism is necessary for salvation. 5. Pretending that catechumans are saved for their desire for baptism. 6. Charity assures one of salvation. Only 6 errors, and I'm sure I missed a couple too....
Katydid89	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#9	[-]
Posts: 149 (01/09/08 21:30:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Pretending that baptism is necessary for salvation, when it isn't. We aren't pretending. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God -John 3:5 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. -Acts 2:38 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: -1 Peter 3:21
thomas1957	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#10	[-]
Posts: 542 (01/09/08 23:34:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* 1. "The Church" is incorrect. The church as written in Scriptures is not the Catholic Church as this Catechism pretends it to be. Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 1 Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the ch of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.[/b] John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized* shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Church=Body of believers in what Christ truly says. I believe in what Christ says why don't you? Quote:* Their is no such thing as a "baptism of desire". So you don't trust in God's mercy? *Quote:* Pretending that baptism is necessary for salvation, when it isn't. Again you don't believe in Jesus' words when he said "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water* and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."* and Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing* them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:* Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Perhaps you should take take up with Christ in prayer. *Quote:* Pretending that the church has always believed that baptism is necessary for salvation. Acts 2:37-38 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. 1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism* into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.* 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism* doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:* Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed* with pure water.* Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; The Church has always believed because it is the "Body of Christ". So Doug believes in at least 6 errors and he's still counting. For me I'll take what Christ and His Church teaches, because Christ has the "words of eternal life" and the Church that He founded is the "pillar and ground for all truth". Thanks be to God! Amen.
DougErd	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#11	[-]
Posts: 1596 (01/10/08 07:16:28) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* We aren't pretending. Sure you are. *Quote:* Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit Each person is born from their mother, that is what Jesus means by being born of water. Each person who is saved is born again by the Spirit, that is what Jesus means by being born of the Spirit. We are saved through faith, not of works, such as baptism: Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
DougErd	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#12	[-]
Posts: 1596 (01/10/08 07:47:04) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thank you thomas for showing the Scriptures.... It exposes the false teachings of the Catholic Church. Let's look together: Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 1 Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the ch of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. Here is what the Catholic Church does but subtilly changing Scripture to pretend it means this.... And I say also unto thee, That thou art Pope Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Catholic Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it..... and this... But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Catholic Church which houses the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. See the difference? The Catholic Church intentionally reads more into Scripture by changing the word church and transposes "Catholic Church" and in the Catechism, just the word "Church" to pretend Scripture pertains to them. Pretty sneaky of the Catholic Church, isn't it? Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Did you know that most Catholics have been baptized before they believed by being baptized before they believed in Jesus Christ? *Quote:* Church=Body of believers in what Christ truly says. Church does not equal the Catholic Church. *Quote:* I believe in what Christ says why don't you? Interesting that Jesus said that 'he that believeth not shall be damned.' Jesus also affirms that baptism isn't necessary for salvation. Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Perhaps you should take take up with Christ in prayer. Jesus taught that before one is to be baptized, they should be taught, and they need to believe. The Catholic Church distorts Scripture by doing it backwards, by baptizing first. That is why there are so many unsaved, baptized Catholics out there. *Quote:* So you don't trust in God's mercy? How does dismissing the Catholic Church's false teaching of the so-called "baptism of desire" have anything to do with not trusting God's mercy? It doesn't. Acts 2:37-38 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Notice that Peter taught them to repent first? Did you know that the Catholic Church baptizes most Catholics as infants before they repent? Again, the Catholic Church twisting Scripture. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. The Catholic Church performs the ritual of infant baptism. How does an infant repent of their sins and call on the name of the Lord? They don't. Once again, the Catholic Church twists Scripture. 1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Paul is speaking about being born again in Jesus Christ. Paul is not speaking of being baptized into the Catholic Church. Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Paul isn't speaking about one being baptized into the Catholic Church. Another example of the Catholic Church twisting Scripture. 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Peter is speaking about Noah, and how the ark saved them. Water killed all living things other than those on the ark. Peter isn't speaking about the ritual of Catholic baptism. Catholic twisting more Scripture. *Quote:* Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. The writer to the Hebrews wasn't speaking of Catholic baptism. The writer was speaking to the Jews about being born again in Jesus Christ. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Paul is teaching we are saved according to God's mercy. This has nothing to do with Catholic baptism. *Quote:* The Church has always believed because it is the "Body of Christ". The church of Jesus Christ has never been the Catholic Church. For, the Catholic Church denies the teachings of Scripture. Thus a false, misleading assertion. *Quote:* For me I'll take what Christ and His Church teaches You take what the Catholic Church teaches, and the Catholic Church alone. Then you take the word church in Scriptures and pretends it means the Catholic Church, when it doesn't. Then you make the false comparision that by following the teachings of the Catholic Church, you are somehow following the teachings of Jesus Christ. That is twisted and false justification of following Jesus, when Jesus never taught any of the verses you supplied for what you think He said.
glorybe429	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#13	[-]
Posts: 16619 (01/10/08 11:45:09) official flamethrower Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Doug Amen!
Loose Nut	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#14	[-]
Posts: 4618 (01/10/08 15:42:26) Anything goes Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Katydid89 *Quote:* Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God -John 3:5 What happens when a pregnant woman's water broke? She selivers a baby very soon after that!!! Loose Nut
thomas1957	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#15	[-]
Posts: 542 (01/12/08 15:24:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Perhaps you should take take up with Christ in prayer. I have Doug and Christ doesn't lie. "7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? 12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes." Matt 7:7-29 God bless
thomas1957	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#16	[-]
Posts: 542 (01/12/08 16:05:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Jesus taught that before one is to be baptized, they should be taught, and they need to believe. The Catholic Church distorts Scripture by doing it backwards, by baptizing first. That is why there are so many unsaved, baptized Catholics out there. If you go to the beginning of John's Gospel you'll see that John tell us: "11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" It is more than just to believe because Jesus tells Nicodemus in order to enter the kingdom of heaven you have to be "born again" and you have to be born of "water and spirit" and you can see the two (water and spirit) together also in the beginning of John's Gospel: "And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." John 1:33 Also notice that after Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus, that Jesus and His disciples came into the Land of Judea and baptized? "After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized." John 3:22 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." CCC-1213 Why baptism? As Paul tells us Romans 5:12-19 Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ 12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. 15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. 18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. In short because of "orginal sin." God bless
glorybe429	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#17	[-]
Posts: 16619 (01/13/08 14:33:47) official flamethrower Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	thommy <in short> you reject THE WORD OF GOD and "exchange THE TRUTH OF GOD FOR A LIE" by submitting to the CULT OF catholicism. "IT IS WRITTEN"
DougErd	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#18	[-]
Posts: 1596 (01/13/08 21:00:26) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." CCC-1213 Another error within the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Baptism is the basis of the whole CATHOLIC life, the door which gives access to Catholics to the sacraments of the Catholic Church. Catholic baptism has nothing to do with following Jesus Christ.
thomas1957	Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#19	[-]
Posts: 542 (01/13/08 21:34:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Catholic baptism has nothing to do with following Jesus Christ. What does baptism have to do with following Christ? First off we follow what Christ tells us: John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. What else does have to do with following Christ, one is we are a new creature. CCC-1214 This sacrament is called Baptism, after the central rite by which it is carried out: to baptize (Greek baptizein) means to "plunge" or "immerse"; the "plunge" into the water symbolizes the catechumen's burial into Christ's death, from which he rises up by resurrection with him, as "a new creature." Just like Holy Scripture states 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Rom 6:3-4 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Col 2:12 12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. CCC-1215 This sacrament is also called "the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit," for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one "can enter the kingdom of God." Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; CCC-1216 "This bath is called enlightenment, because those who receive this [catechetical] instruction are enlightened in their understanding . . . ." Having received in Baptism the Word, "the true light that enlightens every man," the person baptized has been "enlightened," he becomes a "son of light," indeed, he becomes "light" himself: Baptism is God's most beautiful and magnificent gift. . . .We call it gift, grace, anointing, enlightenment, garment of immortality, bath of rebirth, seal, and most precious gift. It is called gift because it is conferred on those who bring nothing of their own; grace since it is given even to the guilty; Baptism because sin is buried in the water; anointing for it is priestly and royal as are those who are anointed; enlightenment because it radiates light; clothing since it veils our shame; bath because it washes; and seal as it is our guard and the sign of God's Lordship. So what does baptism have to do with following Christ? Christ says that if you love Him you will keep His commandments: John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. and again jesus said that inorder to enter into the kingdom of heaven you must be born of water and the spirit. John 3:5 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Matt 28:19-20 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. That's what baptism has to do with following Christ. Trust in Him! God bless
DougErd	Re: Re: Is Water Baptism a 'Sacrament of Regeneration'?	#20	[-]
Posts: 1596 (01/14/08 05:45:03) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thomas, What makes you think that when Scripture speaks of baptism, it has anything to do with the Catholic Church?

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